Blitzkrieg Pop Radio 29.06.2023 – Women in Punk in The Netherlands

This is the 29 June 2023 Blitzkrieg PoP radio show by Danièle Tort, on Shades Radio Network in the USA. It lasted 3 hours and half.

Danièle interviews three people: Pebbles Willekes, who was guitarist and singer of Dutch early punk bands Motorboat and City Squad in Amsterdam in the 1970s; and Herman de Tollenaere and Aurelija Dagilytė – Drevel; who had interviewed Pebbles as part of the Punk Studies project about first wave (1975-1982) Dutch women in punk bands. Each of the three interviews is about 30 minutes, with in between the also about 30 minutes playlists of the interviewees.

0:00 (The Damned – New Rose) left out for copyright reasons

0:00 Ian Wagner of Shades Radio Network announces the show

0:20 Danièle introduces the show

5:13 Pebbles introduces herself

5:53 Herman introduces himself

6:17 Aurelija introduces herself

7:37 Danièle interviews Pebbles about her beginning in punk

11:23 Pebbles about No Fun record store in Amsterdam

11:45 Pebbles about joining the band Motorboat, and No Fun

19:50 Pebbles about City Squad

22:30 Pebbles about teaching Simone, who became bass player in the Bugs; about how punk made her aware of social and political issues

28:10 Pebbles about Siouxsie Sioux being a role model, the Slits and Poly Styrene being inspirational

29:30 Pebbles about other Dutch female punk musicians then: Simone, bass in the Bugs; Genie, bass in Infexion

30:44 What were Pebbles’ best memories of that time? Coming out as a queer person, becoming aware of what was happening in society, like the need to oppose neo-fascism; anarchism, not just believing what the government tells you; thinking for oneself; the chance to develop musically; that would not have happened if it was not for punk rock

32.40 Danièle asks about the City Squad song Wogs, which is against racism. Pebbles was not only guitarist and singer, but also wrote most songs. Lyrics heartfelt

6 February 1979, Siouxsie Paradiso in Amsterdam

35:00 Pebbles about her playlist: ‘Siouxsie of course, in it twice. Love In A Void is a song I sang and played myself, at a benefit for musician Fred who had been shot by a policeman’. ‘Penetration, such an amazing song’. X-ray-Spex. Typical Girls by the Slits. Adverts, with Gaye Advert. Bush Tetras. The Pretenders, some people say it is not punk rock, but this song Precious is. [Because of a copyright claim by the Warner Music Group, we had leave it out here] Poison Girls, very political

37:15 Danièle: ‘I love Crass, so melodic, I would love to interview Chrissie Hynde’. More about Chrissie Hynde.

Playlist of Pebbles, of songs by punk women from the UK (and the US), the playlist is not here for copyright reasons. It is at https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3Wf…

Love In A Void – Siouxsie and the Banshees Life’s A Gamble – Penetration I Am A Poseur – X-ray Spex Typical Girls – Slits One-Chord Wonders – Adverts Too Many Creeps – Bush Tetras Carcass – Siouxsie and the Banshees Precious – Pretenders Ideologically Unsound – Poison Girls

39:12 Danièle interviews Herman. Both contributed to the book Punks Listen. About the LP Join Hands by Siouxsie and the Banshees (Herman’s contribution). And about French and Dutch’s all-women band the Lou’s, Herman’s 1977 inspiration to become punk, to found Pin fanzine,

40:54 found the band The Vipers and founding Cheap ‘n’ Nasty with Terry

42:30 The launch of the book Punks Listen in OCCII in Amsterdam, with Anita Raghunath, Emma Paulissen, Marcel Stol, Herman and Andries van den Broek

45:55 the connection with Crass, Rock Against Racism and anarchism in the Netherlands

47:45 About Cheap ‘n’ Nasty, started at a 1979 Ruts gig in Amsterdam. Drummer Maarten, and drummer Maria if he could not play because of school. Recording the Covergirl EP.

Cheap ‘n’ Nasty, Wanda’s 1980

At first, guitarists’ problems with basslines.

49:14 Chrissie Hynde: long fingers help with guitar playing

49:48 Pebbles rehearsed with us, it had to happen in Terry’s car. We had asked her as a guest guitarist. We did not know then she was not in an Amsterdam band anymore. Else, we might have asked her to become our permanent guitarist/co-vocalist/co-songwriter.

51:53 Meeting Zounds at Dial House, the place of Crass. Touring with Zounds in the Netherlands, Belgium and Berlin

52:55 How our song Covergirl was born during that tour, in the Amsterdam Melkweg

54:02 Herman’s playlist, all songs by bands including one or more Dutch 1975-1982 punk women 54:40 The Punk Studies project of interviewing Dutch 1975-1982 punk women. There were at least 207 women in punk bands in the Netherlands then. Pauwke Berkers’ MA thesis, 200 pages, was not published.

57:20 about Pauline Murray of Penetration about women before and in punk. Women and punk. How punk was different from earlier music.

1:00:10 the Wanda’s, Alkmaar all-women band, unique with flute player. How to find women for interviews.

1:00:45 Punk women in roles other than band members. Around Cheap ’n’ Nasty, band photographer, driver, the two roadies, were all women

1:03:40 Why are the contributions of women to punk often forgotten in writings about punk?

1:04:46 Anita Raghunath and Kirsty Lohman’s theory: big record labels and the rise of hardcore punk (in the 1980s sense) diminished the position of women. Is that true? Bands Nog Watt and Hetze

1:06:40 Helen Reddington about the lack of attention about punk women in UK academic writings. She started to do something about that, also making a film together with Gina Birch of the Raincoats. We should do something about that in the Netherlands too. Zillah Minx of Rubella Ballet will soon have the film She Rocks Punk, including interviews with Dutch punk women, like Diana Ozon and Terry.

1:08:35: The Lou’s and other songs on Herman’s playlist, How Raphaele Devins became Cheap ‘n’ Nasty saxophonist. The Miami Beach Girls Playlist (with explanation added here)

1:12:35 Back On The Street – The Lou’s. About not fitting in

1:15:10 You Say – The Nixe, all-women from Utrecht. Critical about John Travolta discos

1:16:30 Frigid Rigid – The Wanda’s. Critical about conservative women

1:17:46 We’ve Been Waiting For Too Long – The Lou’s

1:19:45 Delight – Miami Beach Girls. All-women, from Leiden. With the ex-Lou’s drummer on drums and one of the Cheap ‘n’ Nasty drummers on vocals

1:21:35 Rats – Rakketax from Utrecht, The singer/author of the song later in the Pin-Offs

1:24:08 Lunatic – Pink, Plastic & Panties. Eindhoven, all-women,

1:28:00 Covergirl – Cheap ‘n’ Nasty. Like the other songs on the EP, written by the bassist/female vocalist. About the fashion industry

1:30:20 Unknown – Cheap ‘n’ Nasty. About love and death

1:32:17 I Am A Photo Model – Cheap ‘n’ Nasty. About tourists and punks

1:37:07 No More Violence (On TV)– Cheap ‘n’ Nasty. About religious hypocrisy

1:38:53 EO Twit – The Nixe. About religious hypocrisy

1:41:10 Wogs – City Squad. Against xenophobia.

Aurelija

1:44:10 Danièle interviews Aurelija. ‘I was a fanzine editor in Lithuania in the 1990s. I moved to the Netherlands, but still kept in touch with the guys in the scene in Lithuania. In 2019, I had mail from my former colleague about digitizing the fanzines. As there were coronavirus lockdowns, we got funding. Because that is something you can do at home. I thought, the Netherlands is a Western country, so probably much work has been done about the fanzines.

1:47:53 Then, I read about the Women In Punk conference in OCCII in Amsterdam in June 2022. I contacted the organisers. I found out that, actually, not much had been done about fanzines in the Netherlands. It is often fragile paper. This heritage has not been systematically collected. In the universities, they don’t want to do it. Doing it outside of universities is difficult, because of financing. If you do it in an academic theoretical framework, there is the risk of sucking out the essence of what it was. It was actually fun, and academics don’t like to write about fun, Don’t just write about these women. Interview them. Let them tell their stories. As an anthropologist, I could write an article in the scientific press that nobody would read. But if you do the interviews and publish them, that is the living culture as it is, and not my perspective on it. That is why I am happy to join this project. If you work within an academic framework, there is the risk of being limited by the rules of that framework

1:53:51 There were then not only punk girls, but also mainstream girls. And often, you have more issues with the ‘normal’ girls, than with the guys in the scene. You feel that you don’t belong in that ‘normal’ culture. You communicate rather more through stories than through studies. In Latvia, guys used to go to a forest to exchange audio cassettes recorded from someone who had records.

2:00:24 Danièle: I wore lipstick as eyeshadow, Pebbles: We put lipstick in our hair. Danièle: ‘it was not just simply fashion, Women were making a statement by wearing fishnet thights, or fluorescent socks with pointed heels. It was not like following dictates of female fashion at all.’ Aurelija got letters: ‘I found that skirt somewhere in my grandmother’s wardrobe’. I don’t think the guys were like that. You wanted to look ..not especially beautiful, but you wanted to make a statement with your look. There were no shops for that. You made clothes yourself. Put oil paint on shirts, because you had no band T-shirt. Danièle: Pebbles said that the punk movement helped her to express her sense of rebellion.

2:11:02 Aurelija: the Stranglers’ No More Heroes had actually more influence on the early punk movement in Lithuania than the Sex Pistols.

2:13:30 Herman: Last year, Don Letts said: ‘Punk mainly is not something to look back to, but to look forward to, Though I am a historian, I agree. So, I also listen to punk bands who were founded recently’.

Aurelija’s playlist is at https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5vJEZxeDoYBF0ieLwuiGa7?si=d0e3dc7b626a4a06&nd=1

Tall Cans In The Air -Transplants My Alcoholic Friends – Dresden Dolls Spiders In The Dressing Room – Toy Dolls Human Fly – Cramps After Dark -Tito & Tatantula Shadowplay – Joy Division She Sells Sanctuary – The Cult No More Heroes – Stranglers Chaise Longue – Wet Leg Blood In The Cut – K. Flay Code Blue – T.S.O.L.

2:14:30 Ian Wagner’s and Danièle’s final words of the show, including looking forward to later shows